Jesus Christ, creepy much? Enough, mate, please.
You’re welcome, but I’m also doing this for the community as a whole and of course my own benefit
Truly…mostly my own benefit and beliefs if I’m to be honest. Also, hey!, I need prayers too! I need all the prayers I can get!!! Please pray for my safety at work tonight, that the homeless people I encounter find peace and solutions, and most of all that nobody dies on my shift.
Thanks and bless
The initial discussion did.
I don’t have a problem with you, and only a mild problem with what you’re saying. I don’t have the energy at nearly 2am to go through everything you’ve said, other than to say I don’t think you’re really addressing the DMCA takedown and followup concerns I have. Linking to infringing material is very much something that the DMCA covers, which I why I mentioned the specific legislation.
Over 300 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute, so yeah, that makes sense.
Content ID only works if the fingerprints exists for a content match to occur.
One can be wilfully negligent.
Which means nothing since the Discourse instance is hosted on an OVH server in Canada.
Excuse me for a moment while I a) avail myself of fair use doctrine, and b) make a point:
Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
I would like it if people didn’t embed, link to or host entire movies and concerts and albums here, because since there are no DMCA safeguards in place, someone can just come along and zap the fuck out of the server. I mean it’s unlikely due to the size of the community, but why chance it? And is it really this community’s ethos to deny copyright holders their rights to exploit their material, as I’ve tried to make clear? I’m pretty sure movie studios don’t get royalties from YouTube when someone watches a DVD rip there.
Anyway. Sleep calls. I’ve made my position as clear as I think I can make it.
Took you four days to do that, and the main point really, really wasn’t about copyright infringement per se, but you continuing to do something a few people asked you not to, like really politely, and your attitude every time towards me has been quite rotten. You seem to think I’m doing this out of some personal vendetta, as you’ve alluded to previously. I’m not. I am desperately not trying to be some unauthorised policeman waving a stick about and hitting anyone I please; I’m trying to help protect this community from anything that can harm it.
The reason the conversation was still going was … well, because the conversation was still going.
Again, please don’t think that I am trying to knock you down, because I am not.
No, that not how it works. They would at worst under that issue a C&D first. Tort is a different story.
I graduated a paralegal (and only because I paid my shitty college tuition up front, found out too late it’s not what I want to do though)
I’m not sure anything can be said to dissuade you of that (again, I disagree it’s so simple as that), but I expect we’re in agreement that content ID vetted videos are fine to link to or embed? Ok then, in future if you’ve concerns you can search content ID videos and their content policies here..
Now, if only there were some sort of discord plug in that would do that automagically…
p.s. I’m cool with not actually creating a IP policy for the forums right now too because I share your head banging sentiment. How 'bout we agree searching content ID for youtube videos (certainly not a complete but…) is a good enough solution for everyone right now?
I don’t manage this site, so, no. That’s not really the point though, is it.
I have to agree with @neuro here theft of Intellectual Property (IP) is still theft and the decision not to do it should not be based on the chances of getting caught or the size of the penalty if you do. It is put simply: morally and criminally wrong.
There may be times when breaking the law is morally the right thing to do but that is a matter for your own conscious and certainly does not extend to posting others IP without their permission.
Woah dude, calling someone a thief is a punk move. Right, I’ve spoken earlier ITT about contentID, that embedding is different than freebooting, youtube actually pays royalties to commercially copyrighted works, etc. etc. This conversation shouldn’t be limited to fear/hoarding based pre-conceptions of how things should work but rather how things actually work. Most importantly, I mentioned chilling effects. They’re bad. The “bad” we’re seeing here is artists and content creators being denied revenue on these forums purely due to misguided popular opinion. I’d ask you please look into the matter first before forming such a strong opinion (and yes, I am holding you to a higher standard as a moderator)
I agree. Copyright infringement is not theft. Theft is the deprivation of something taken without permission. If I borrow a DVD from a friend, rip said DVD, then return it, I have performed an act of copyright infringement, but not theft. If I walk into HMV and take a DVD without paying for it, that is theft, as HMV no longer have the DVD to sell and make revenue from that sale.
YouTube pays royalties where they know who the copyright holder is, and when the content fingerprints are correctly registered with Content ID. I’ve mentioned this already. Content ID is nowhere near infallible, neither is YouTube’s copyright infringement reporting mechanisms. Look at this case where someone’s white noise is flagged multiple times as infringing. A cursory Google reveals tonnes of cases where Content ID just Does Not Work, fails to pay out anywhere near the figures quoted by Google/Alphabet, and can in fact be hostile to independent musicians.
Again, you are dreaming of an infringement-free utopia, which is laudable, but does not take into consideration the real-world operational requirements to run a user-generated content site.
Additionally, I would question the potential revenue from a small forum like this.
I would look further than the echo chamber that is YouTube’s own forums. A discussion of the legal ramifications in the EU, for example. A critical part in the linked response is that knowingly embedding infringing content presents risks. This is the part which I’m trying to drill into this conversation.
Chill knowingly embedded YouTube videos that he knew contained full copies of movies which had not been uploaded by the copyright holder. Full movies on YouTube never, if ever, get left up once a copyright infringement has been reported or detected. Clips get left up when they can be monetised by the copyright holder, but what royalties will YouTube deliver when it’s an entire movie? None, because the Content ID-based royalties system is for music, not films or TV, because the royalties system is based on deals with major record labels. Also, YouTube is a streaming video rental service, and do you really think Universal, Fox, Disney et al would rather collect cents from ad revenue over $3-10 for a movie rental?
You have miscategorised this entire line of argument by focusing on music. I am trying to point out the original actions were embedding whole movies. I am also repeatedly trying to point out that the primary concern here was that the requests of moderators and presenters were being ignored.
No-one is trying to stifle culture or content sharing here, but there are limits to which anyone must see that the breaching of those limits crosses a line.
I am unhappy with the characterisation being presented that any attempt to stop repeated, wholesale, legally risky actions is somehow bad, and that by denying Bono a fraction of a cent in royalties will bring our culture crashing down around our ears. I am unhappy with the characterisation being presented that the people asking that these actions not take place are “misguided”, misinformed, and somehow not in full possession of the facts. I mean, don’t mind me, I’ve only been on the Internet for TWENTY-FOUR FUCKING YEARS.
And on that unfortunately sour note, I’m off to bed again. Apols.
Obviously we are limited to discussion of youtube videos only here and that link you provided is not youtube specific. Of course the landscape of the conversation changes dramatically if we make this a conversation about copyright/ip infringement in general.
That’s why I provided a google products link specifically where @WarrenHill can search terms like “embed legal” where s/he will find out little facts like youtube has agreements with studios (yes some upload the whole movie),that royalty/ad revenue distribution is not limited exclusively to the uploader, or that the uploader must choose at the time of upload whether or not to make the video embeddable in the first place. Again, embedding is not uploading to a different venue. That’s for @WarrenHill o discover on their own though. I’m not a huge fan of people ‘just taking my word’ for things. I could say anything online.
The world is not what it was in '96 (when I was first on the internet proper, just a couple years after you, late 80’s if we’re counting compuserve). It has adapted past a model of “pay us upfront or no goodies for you!”. I sincerely hope people consider that because I think it’s actually good for our culture. Sharing is caring
Also, the age card? I think we’re all in the same general age range (same as presenters or older) here, so lets not even go there, eh?
I don’t like that you appear to have gone to bed upset In fact, let’s just put this whole matter to bed. I propose a youtube/google community manager/ambassador/whatever as an upcoming show guest.
Sorry, forgot the “last”. The others were ignored as they actually help build my argument that there are not only enforcement measures in place…that those measures are actually flawed on the side of being too cautious and, well, the RIAA kinda has a rep.
Is IP theft something different from this discussion, or the subject of that link a USA thing?
They're misusing the term; the government here uses the term IP crime and infringement.
 NIPR and the rest of the US Government and their agencies.
Aaaaaaaaaaaargh, so fucking what? The linked query discusses YouTube very specifically, and the action of embedding stuff is not unique to YouTube, it’s just that YouTube videos have been embedded here, the types of which people have politely asked not to be done.
I’m sick to the stomach of this argument, it’s going nowhere, and you’re not actually listening to anything I’m saying.
OK, all of you, KNOCK IT OFF. I am tired of this bickering.
It is OK to share content here under fair use - outside of that, do not share any kind of copyrighted material without express written from the copyright owner.
Even more importantly, I have two requests:
- Please be respectful to each other. I have zero dogs in this race, but I do not want to tolerate anyone being rude, making accusations, or dragging this forum into yet-another-flurry-of-shitstorms.
- Please stay on-topic in discussions. There have been some random posts in topics that drag it into off-topic territory. I am going to chat with the mods for us to enforce an on-topic rule. This applies to everyone.
For years we have prided ourselves on being a forum rooted in respect and great debate. I do not want to lose this.
When did I lose my sexuality? I don’t want to pursue this further and you are welcome to disagree with me here but I thought my status as male was universally accepted
Oh. Yeeeeah, I think I’ve been in most of those threads :0 I’m sorry if it’s been found irksome. I don’t think I can not do that though (well, I can and do when I have to at work etc. etc. but…I just don’t wanna). If something catches my fancy I tend to get facinated by all facets of it and want to explore them. I get that makes me super shit at fitting set parameters though and I didn’t realize not staying on set topics was annoying people. Again, sorry. While I’m apologizing (I don’t think this is the case…but just in case); @neuro , if you were ever under the impression that I ever thought you were anything less than awesome, please know that is simply not the case Annnnyhow, I think I just totally failed by little experiment of being here to get along with the community sooo…
Again, whoops and so not my intent
Sorry, force of habit/muscle memory (was rushed getting ready for work last night)
Apology accepted, and please accept reciprocal apology for lack of reciprocal awesomeness acknowledgement! I can be like a little terrier sometimes when I get my teeth stuck into something.