1x40: Zero-Dollar Energy

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161

Thinking that the former will be effective is an illusion. The latter is usually highly impractical for most.

I was asking earlier about whether a person vaccinated should be worried about being infected by the microbes he is vaccinated against. It would seem, that under a system that vaccinations are a choice and not mandatory, that there would be two groups as regards the topic, those immune and those not. Again, should those immune worry about infection, or is it not that reliable?

If a government has mandatory immunizations as a matter of public policy, then why are they not making public policy about things that are far more lethal, such as tobacco. The deaths directly connected to tobacco, either from directly smoking or those affected by second hand smoke, are far, far greater than those of ones who have chose not to immunize. How could promoting a public policy of forced vaccinations, but not eliminating such lethal substances as tobacco not be hypocritical?

162

It would be hypocritical, entirely. I am not sanguine about the possibility of it happening, though; the US can’t even mandate seatbelt use, and traffic accidents are also a pretty common killer (not nearly as much as tobacco, though). Smoking is banned in public indoor places in the UK at least, so moves are happening in the direction you’d like to see.

163

A fair point. This topic is closer to the experience of my day job, so I felt like there was much left unsaid (largely summarized in my earlier rant). But viewed through the prism of time limits for that segment and the likely interests of the BV audience (I’m guessing less medical) the substance provided was at least as much as is appropriate.

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164

I never looked at any vacin studies and I don’t really need too. Autism is, for as far as anyone knows about it, a handicap you are born with. You simply do not “get” autism. You have it or you don’t. It even is something that, acording to this source https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4129499/ is heavily influenced by genetics. The parents who claim their kids have autism because of a vacin are not just wrong. In my eyes they do not accept their kids. The way they blame something means that they see it as something inherently bad. Which it abselutely is not. It might make things more difficult, but it is who they are. And a kid is never inherently bad.

Sorry for the slightly off topic rant. I tend to take this a little too personal because it comes so close to myself.

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165

I appreciate your response. I admit my ignorance about autism and you have taught me something here. Thank you.

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166

Quick poll for those with children who refuse vaccinations for things they consider “too risky” – did you elect not to give them the Vitamin K jab after birth?

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I really appreciate you took the time to read and learn.

168

From the abstract in the article you sited: “Autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) are complex, heterogeneous disorders caused by an interaction between genetic vulnerability and environmental factors.”

Then the article mentions possible factors, in addition to the genetic factor, of it being (and I am simplifying it) environmental toxins and viruses transmitted from the mother to the fetus, among others. So, I would make one simple conclusion that, with the absence of the genetic factor, a fetus exposed to an external toxin or virus might have an adverse affect, but would not have Autism. So, it makes me wonder, is it possible that one might be born with the genetic factors for Autism, but not have it triggered by external factors? If that is possible, could it be triggered after birth?

Again, I am ignorant about this topic, so, please accept my thoughts as in an air of curiosity rather than criticism. This is something for research on my part.

You maybe right in that some might not accept their children. I am sure that does happen, and that idea makes me sad, and more than a bit indignant. And you are correct that being born with a disease is not because the child is bad, like that child had a choice in the matter! However, I can imagine a parent just wanting to blame something and all that genetic stuff is so hard to understand. And perhaps the Autism is not noticed or diagnosed until after a vaccination. So, it would be easy for one to try to tie the two together. I hope, that with the information that is available, and with help of ones who do understand the nature of the disease, these instances will diminish so that parents can focus, not on blame, but on caring for the child’s needs and showing it love.

169

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/04/22/california-vaccine-bill-approved-in-key-hearing

Fresh news from California in which vaccines are required for kids to go to school.

170

Being forced to educate your child does not as far as I am aware have the potential to physically or mentally harm your child. You may also educate your own child and if you choose that option and still have concerns about their physical or mental health then I would suggest there are probably bigger issues at play.

Again being forced to not physically harm a child is a zero sum game of harm vs no harm.

Vaccinations by the manufacturers own admission have the potential to cause harm. There is the potential for harm to come to someone by not vaccinating. However, the risk vs reward is different for each individual. Our physician completely agreed that giving our youngest a chicken pox vaccine would be unwise after he older brother had a severe (we went to hospital in an ambulance) reaction to his vaccine. It was unlikely (given family history) that she would suffer adverse effects from the virus it’s self, and a greater than average chance she would given her brothers reaction.

All Bryan is saying is that we are all individuals, each vaccine is different. It doesn’t make sense to treat vaccines or us with a blanket approach.

“I trust experts who, in general consensus”

Ok so this is part of the problem. There are “experts” who sit on both sides of the fence and a lot that hang out in the middle. It’s all down to who YOU trust.

My next door neighbor happens to be an immunologist who works with a research team at Adelaide Uni to develop vaccines that don’t have the protein identification issues.

Now he’s not my child’s GP and he would never make a recommendation to me personally. I know the guy quite well, and when I ask him, hey have your daughters had vaccination xyz. His answer (which is not the same for every vaccine) holds a bit more weight than my GP who’s really only read what the medical association has recommended. Which may or may not be what the pharma companies have recommended.

Also making recommendations for a populace is different to recommendations for an individual. I agree that most people should get vaccinated for a lot of the diseases. But I know absolutely nothing about your child, your family history. Imagine I said “experts agree that avocados are a wonderful food and everyone should be forced to eat an avocado”. You might be allergic to avocados (yes that’s a thing), you could have FHS in which case an avocado a day could cause significant issues down the track…etc…

Recommendations are recommendations for a reason. They apply broadly and state that as a whole we (the policy makers) agree this is a good idea for the populace based on the data they had at the time the policy was put in place. Policy does not always equal correctness and certainly says nothing about an individual. Much of our medical recommendations date back to the 1970s. SSRI’s have barely changed since the 1960s when they were about as effective as they are today…which is to say not.

Getting side tracked but I think you get the idea.

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171

The autism link to vaccines was proved bunk. The author of that study at the very least made some important mistakes. If you believe the worst, he had his staff doctor the results. That sole study which links autism is useless from a scientific perspective.

"Autism is, for as far as anyone knows about it, a handicap you are born with. "

“We” know SFA about autism. Gene mutations are likely responsible for a portion of autism cases. There are a large amounts that can not be liked to the mutations that we currently know about.
It’s possible that “autism” is actually an umbrella for alot of different issues which result in similar outcomes.

172

I broke my arm at school after being forced to go on the “monkey bars”. So yes, school can cause physical harm. Lest we not forget the mental anguish of bullying either…

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173

I was surprised that California had not already had this in place. The following is the requirements in Kansas.

http://www.kdheks.gov/immunize/download/Kansas_Statutes_Related_to_School_Immunizations.pdf

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"the thought that the elimination of disease is possible is, at the very least, an illusion. "

It doesn’t help to find out the US and Russia have munitions quantities of smallpox and other diseases stored up.

175

That’s true, and in theory your parents have the choice to choose your education environment, but from a practical perspective it’s not always possible.

I can see there are issues with being forced to educate, probably another topic, but I don’t think it’s the same as being forced to inject biological and chemical agents.

I understand the “you can’t go to our publicly funded school if you aren’t adhering to our public policy” argument. I still don’t agree that it’s a good idea, but if @sil was pushing for that I would completely understand. I feel that’s a more reasonable approach.

177

#Sorting out D-bus:

I saw this post tonight , and it got me thinking along the lines of a Meta-discussion about D-bus.
basically what you are talking about is collectioons … isn’t it ?

I mean , if D-bus can operate between the applications on Ubuntu Touch etc … then I see no reason to not have an application thatr can say talk to your pebble or something ( aswell as the phone main screen ).

It would be interesting to ask at this UOS what the situation is with people fillingout the forms to-do D-Bus confluence info pages. Which I guess are like man-pages, but as of yet I’ve yet to even see one - If someone can give an example ?
As I believe they’ve updated them to a wiki-style man-page system that people can add-to.
I don’t have the name of it though - and google won’t help !

Basically, this is a view to how the various click-Apps actually gain simultaneity, which I know is a problem in the west midlands. Seriously, this, I can be conscious of. {bad English replies below please}

But how do you come by asking someone of a click-App developer if they have done the D-bus pages for this ?

~I mean they would look at it like Tinsel in the rain - An app extent thatmay not be be amenable to coding on such a progressive system.

But I ask you : Haven’t all the devOPerators asked such questions at various times in their isochromatic days of programming ? I would argue they have.

Or atleast that’s what @sil sounded like, to me.

I guess to change the ‘beat’ of the rhythm … you have to attend (directly tweet or Internet Chat) members of the click-Apps at the UOS-May 2015.

Look at the link an you’ll see it’s full of mobile talks and discussions.

And may I say the best of luck to those who give it a go.

178

If there is a concern about an allergic reaction to a vaccination this article made the following recommendation:

“Most patients with vaccine allergy may be safely vaccinated, according to a practice parameter published in the October issue of the Annals of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology. However, the new guidelines also recommend that patients with suspected allergy to vaccines or vaccine components be evaluated by an allergist or immunologist vs simply avoiding future immunizations, which could leave patients at higher risk for infectious disease.”

179

Judging by the responses from the team I’ve seen in this thread I’m not doing myself any favours posting this.

I need to say it though to get it off my chest as it’s something that has really been bothering me since I listened to this episode a few days ago. I don’t know when or if I’m going to be able to listen to and enjoy Bad Voltage again.

I was a fanatical listener of Lugradio. I enjoyed all of Shot of Jaq. I powered through a year’s worth of BV episodes over the last week or two.

I don’t need everything to conform to my own views. Some people are religious, some aren’t. Some people feel strongly about democracy, or about corruption, or whatever else. Humans are complicated but we muddle through and have a good laugh along the way. Some so-called people even like systemd.

You know where this is going already and I don’t particularly want to say it anyway.

I can understand not trusting a government to behave itself. I can understand doing your own research. What I cannot grasp is the sheer monumental arrogance of insisting that you know better than people who have devoted their lives to medicine. The facile arguing over whether the professional advice came from someone one knows personally was truly pathetic.

If you don’t trust government policy ask a doctor. No, ask a whole load of different doctors. Ask doctors from other countries. If after all that the data points to not vaccinating then you have a leg to stand on.

I was genuinely disturbed after listening to that segment. I’m really hoping that I’ll listen to the next episode and hear that it was an elaborate shower-tent-like practical joke. I cannot fathom why someone would deny someone proven medical technology, let alone their own child, and it indelibly colours any further listening.

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180

I won’t argue the point, for I would probably be getting the vaccinations if I had young ones now too. But I will express my cynicism over the medical profession. There have been many times that what was “known” has been shown in error. The latest is that, what we have been told for decades about saturated fat, is all of a sudden in error due to recent studies. Now, the question is, is it a coincidence that these findings have come out after a lot of cholesterol lowering drug patents have expired? My point is, that I would not be the least bit surprised that the ‘data’ from vaccinations have been manipulated for the sake of the greed of the pharmaceuticals. Mind you, I’m not making that indictment, but, observing how the system has worked over the decades, the question does remain in the back of my mind.

That is regrettable, but I can empathize. Perhaps further episodes will lessen the effect.